|
|
Regular
Posts: 159
 
| Ever since I've had the car, the brakes have been rubbish, I'd sort of got used to it but I have had a few scary moments where I'm just not stopping quick enough.
The servo and master cylinder aren't that old having been replaced by the previous owner, the pedal isn't spongey and I've changed the fluid anyway as well as the pads and cleaned the disks (GTI setup).
The handbrake works a treat so I don't question the shoes or drums although I've not looked at them.
Any ideas?
Is there a very simple and cheap upgrade like a bolt on caliper with a bigger piston?
Any pointers much appreciated. |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 586
Location: brighouse just shy huddersfield | As far as I'm aware gti setup is about as good as it gets bar drilled/grooved disks and decent pads |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4458
Location: Jelling, Denmark | there might be air in the system of the brakes are spongy |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2568
Location: Up in the lakes | Metro brakes aren't the shapest brakes even at their best. The servo is pretty small so more pedal effort is needed.
Have you checked the callipers to see if anythings sticking? I strip mine every year before mot and always find at least one slider a little stiff. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Thanks for the input guys, the pedal isn't spongy nor is anything stuck,its just like the pads aren't gripping the disks hard enough.
What about mgf brakes? |
|
| |
|
drive it like its hired
| Brakes on older cars like the metro have much less servo assistance.
So will never feel like modern cars, which is not a bad thing.
However, the fact your car has just had new master cyl and servo is flagging alarm bells as normally these never go wrong.
Wondering if your not getting much vacuum or a wheel bearing is slack.
Always worth adjusting the rear shoes up.
Edited by petrol_head 7/8/2016 1:14 AM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Thanks for the input mate,
Regarding the feel, I went from an 80s ford to this so my expectations weren't that high LOL.
Your the second person to mention vacuum so I'll look at that, the original hose is a horrible hard plastic type, I'll try it and get back to you, Cheer's |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 482
Location: Meuspath | Do you have the front calipers fitted on the wrong sides? |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Eh?
I've not meddled with those.
I think they are right as the nips are at the top.
Anyway what difference would it make, I'm confused? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 5629
Location: Letchworth/Basildon | Metro brakes do require a lot of effort compared to other cars, but the actual braking force available has always been enough to lock the wheels at speed.
So is your issue that the braking force available is lacking even with your foot hard down on the brake?
I have fitted Carbon Lorraine (CL as they are called now) brake pads (intended for a corsa but modified to fit) and they feel a lot more sharp with light pedal pressure |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Hi, the pedal is firm and operation is nice and smooth.
It feels like as if the pads are greased on the pad face, or the servo hose is disconnected, no matter how hard I stomp there is no way these will lock not even it the wet.
The pads are new (couple of hundred miles now) and I cleaned the disks properly.
Servo is not that old old.
Cheers for the info
Edited by Jin 8/8/2016 6:19 PM
|
|
| |
|
drive it like its hired
| when not moving will the pedal pump up and go hard with minimal travel.
Honestly you should not be driving this car. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Hi, I know where your coming from regarding the pedal, it feels and operates fine, no pumping required, no sponginess, no creep etc,
Ironically it passes the mot but must be close to the limit.
Hoping to get a new servo hose tomorrow |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 482
Location: Meuspath | Is the master cylinder leaking into servo?
As for calipers, If they were fitted the wrong way round by someone they will be impossible to bleed as the nipples will be the wrong way up trapping in air. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Hi there, the master cylinder and servo are all spot on.
The calipers are correct also because the nips are at the top,
I meant to buy servo hose at lunchtime but didn't get chance 
To clarify, every aspect of the breaking system appears perfectly OK both visually and physically OK, other than finding the rear drums full of oil (not checked) I can't predict anything, |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 11052
Location: Wolverhampton | Many years ago remember getting into a fiends 114 GTa and being shocked at how sharp the brakes felt compared to my own 1995 111, you wouldn't even believe they were the same model of car the difference was so great - . I've never been in any metro before or since that felt that sharp on initial bite, only a light touch would see you newrly face plant the screen. Never did find out why it felt so heavily servo assisted it was extremely odd for a metro, yet bog standard as far as I was aware |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Gandi69 - 10/8/2016 3:59 AM
Many years ago remember getting into a fiends 114 GTa and being shocked at how sharp the brakes felt compared to my own 1995 111, you wouldn't even believe they were the same model of car the difference was so great - . I've never been in any metro before or since that felt that sharp on initial bite, only a light touch would see you newrly face plant the screen. Never did find out why it felt so heavily servo assisted it was extremely odd for a metro, yet bog standard as far as I was aware
That's what I need mate |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Well I've replaced the servo hose and there is no improvement.
My feeling is the rear brakes are letting the side down and the fact that the pedals in this are shortened thus reducing the leverage?
I'll see what else I can do |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Radstock | sorry to jump on the band wagon
I have the same concern that if I press the brake peddle with some force the car slows - but it not slowing fast enough. I get the feeling that I need leg muscles like the hulk to actually make a difference.
I had an issue last year where the brake fluid leaked into the servo - so I had new servo, master cylinder, discs and pads - and new drums at the same time. The hand brake is perfect - better than its been for a long time.
I have been back to the garage that carried out the above works - and the vacuum hose was replaced - the disks were changed for ferrodo and ferrodo pads. I have bedded these in - but again the car does not seem to slow up quick enough.
I have been thinking about putting a tarox kit on the car, which is callipers, slotted discs and braded hoses - at nearly a grand they are expensive - but I am not sure that they will fit under my 14inch compo motives.
the chap at the garage reckons that I am comparing the metro to my GTR - which is rubbish as the metro plain and simple does not stop quick enough - and as mentioned before - I get the impression that I wont lock up on a wet road. So if anyone has a solution - bigger servo ? then let me know
Shaun
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| Sounds like you have the same issue as me mate, and I've had a few remarks about it being an old car etc but at the end of the day this level of braking performance would not have been acceptable back in the day, all I want to do is restore the performance to what it should be. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 112
Location: Hamburg, Germany | how old are the rubber hoses?
do you have any data, like from a brake test?
does the rear hydraulic really work? or are the regulating valves and/or cylinders non-working?
what kind of pads are you using? properly broken in? are the rear shoes and drums in good shape? a working hand brake doesn't tell the whole story |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 586
Location: brighouse just shy huddersfield | Could you not adapt a rover 25 servo or something similar surely it's just a case of making it fit the bulkhead and possibly adapting the pedal? |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 159
| KLAS - 13/8/2016 12:15 AM
how old are the rubber hoses?
do you have any data, like from a brake test?
does the rear hydraulic really work? or are the regulating valves and/or cylinders non-working?
what kind of pads are you using? properly broken in? are the rear shoes and drums in good shape? a working hand brake doesn't tell the whole story
All very valid points thanks.
I've a feeling I won't find 1 issue but more several causes.
The next job on the list is a full rear brake overhaul |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 342
Location: Radstock | Hi for me I have had the shoes replaced with ferodo and new drums and wheel cylinders along with all the flexible hoses and front disks pads and servo all parts sourced from a famous on line supplier.
The only thing that I don't think that has been replaced is the vacuum hose. But I can pump the peddle so it's hard. Start the engine and the peddle drops a bit....
So what else can be wrong?
|
|
| |
|
drive it like its hired
| Mad_shaun - 13/8/2016 12:09 AM
sorry to jump on the band wagon
I have the same concern that if I press the brake peddle with some force the car slows - but it not slowing fast enough. I get the feeling that I need leg muscles like the hulk to actually make a difference.
I had an issue last year where the brake fluid leaked into the servo - so I had new servo, master cylinder, discs and pads - and new drums at the same time. The hand brake is perfect - better than its been for a long time.
I have been back to the garage that carried out the above works - and the vacuum hose was replaced - the disks were changed for ferrodo and ferrodo pads. I have bedded these in - but again the car does not seem to slow up quick enough.
I have been thinking about putting a tarox kit on the car, which is callipers, slotted discs and braded hoses - at nearly a grand they are expensive - but I am not sure that they will fit under my 14inch compo motives.
the chap at the garage reckons that I am comparing the metro to my GTR - which is rubbish as the metro plain and simple does not stop quick enough - and as mentioned before - I get the impression that I wont lock up on a wet road. So if anyone has a solution - bigger servo ? then let me know
Shaun
what changed when the brakes went bad? |
|
| |
extremely cr#p brakes
Technical Area-> Technical
