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Brakes. At wits end.
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aquascrotum
Posted 2/7/2015 10:06 AM (#718853)
Subject: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 112
100
Location: Armagh, Northern Ireland
I've a 100 MPI with 143 VVC conversion.  During the conversion we took the whole MGF subframe / suspension / brake setup.

We've never had what I could call a good footbrake.  Have bled it to death but came to conclusion that master cylinder must be suspect.  Have no replaced the master cylinder with a new item and while at it have replaced all the rubber brake hoses with stainless braided hoses.  Net result is no change, have an OK pedal with no ignition but as soon as the servo kicks in the pedal goes to the floor.  Am at wits end, calipers are fine, discs and pads are fresh, rears are adjusted, no leaks from the system that I can find.  

Given the servo may be being a bit too enthusiastic, just wanted to ask whether the upgrade to the 1.8 increases the vacuum action on the servo?  Is this something that anyone else has encountered or is it something I should have known about and fixed??

Any other suggestions in general appreciated.

 
metro190bhp
Posted 14/7/2015 7:08 PM (#719005 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.
Elite Veteran

Posts: 883
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Location: birmingham
Put a tee piece in and the same for the back. U do not use the valves on the bulkhead when doing this
 
petrol_head
Posted 2/7/2015 1:26 PM (#718856 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


drive it like its hired

5000500050002000500100100100100
Have you had it on the road?

You must have an issue with a wheel bearing or brake disc/caliper not being seated correctly I think
Are you sure the dual circuit is across corners?

Edited by petrol_head 2/7/2015 1:27 PM
 
aquascrotum
Posted 2/7/2015 1:34 PM (#718857 - in reply to #718856)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 112
100
Location: Armagh, Northern Ireland
It was on the road for 10 months, brake action passed MOT by 1%.

Cross corners still, though something to double check I spose as I re-routed the brakelines to the rear internally so as to allow a hydraulic handbrake (which isnt fitted, just bypassed).
 
petrol_head
Posted 2/7/2015 2:28 PM (#718859 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


drive it like its hired

5000500050002000500100100100100
Considering MGF calipers are near identical (you have just used bogo vented ones?)
You must have done something wrong, nothing is likely to have failed or worn out.
Hydraulic handbrake is a line lock, or seperate system?

Edited by petrol_head 2/7/2015 2:28 PM
 
aquascrotum
Posted 2/7/2015 2:47 PM (#718860 - in reply to #718859)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 112
100
Location: Armagh, Northern Ireland
Standard F calipers and vented discs.  Before last MOT we'd tried the discs and pads from the donor car but then renewed discs and pads for standard pattern parts to try and solve brake issues, so everything is pretty fresh but very standard.

Brake lines were picked up at the bulkhead and routed internally along the exhaust tunnel, back out behind the cable handbrake and replaced the lines back to the flexi hoses to the drums.  Hydraulic HB is inline but isnt installed at the minute, have just a blank pipe on each line where it would feed in/out of the h/b master cylinders.

Hard to know what could have gone wrong given its OEM apart from the brakelines which are just a different route between 2 points.
 
Paul r
Posted 2/7/2015 2:57 PM (#718861 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.
Extreme Veteran

Posts: 539
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Location: Swindon, Wilts
hydro lines have shit loads of air in by the sounds of it, bleed them.
 
Gandi69
Posted 2/7/2015 3:38 PM (#718862 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.
Expert

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what method are you using for bleeding?
 
petrol_head
Posted 2/7/2015 4:04 PM (#718863 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


drive it like its hired

5000500050002000500100100100100
It is very difficult to get them to bleed sometimes when the system has been drained.
Its worth bleeding the pipes at the master. (crack off pipe, depress pedal, tighten pipe, release pedal, repeat...)
 
aquascrotum
Posted 2/7/2015 5:17 PM (#718864 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 112
100
Location: Armagh, Northern Ireland
Refilled the system using easibleed in normal order (o/s rear, n/s front, n/s rear, o/s front, master cylinder top and bottom) - got a solid stream of fluid at all points, no farts or bubbles.  Then bled with the wife on the pedal in same order but got no real air out.
 
trebus
Posted 5/7/2015 7:08 PM (#718884 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 139
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Have you got new pads on a old discs ?
 
trebus
Posted 5/7/2015 7:08 PM (#718885 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 139
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Have you got new pads on a old discs ?
 
aquascrotum
Posted 6/7/2015 10:09 AM (#718897 - in reply to #718885)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 112
100
Location: Armagh, Northern Ireland
Discs and pads all changed at the same time.
 
trebus
Posted 6/7/2015 1:17 PM (#718900 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 139
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All I can suggest is if you are confident you have bled them correctly then go for a carefull drive and try to bed the pads in, if the pads are new they might just need bedding in .I have had it a few times with other cars the pedal can be very spongy until they are bedded in
 
metro190bhp
Posted 6/7/2015 9:38 PM (#718905 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.
Elite Veteran

Posts: 883
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Location: birmingham
As already said try bleeding directly out of the master cylinder by cracking the pipes & also at the valves on the bulkhead
 
aquascrotum
Posted 8/7/2015 1:00 PM (#718924 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 112
100
Location: Armagh, Northern Ireland
Bled again and got a little air out, and now have a pedal which is progress.  Still have to get her on the road to test (reluctant as I have a coolant leak so want to get that fixed & flushed first) but looks good.

Re the valves / front rear splits on the bulkhead - is there any adjustment in these in terms of how much pressure is sent to the rear?  If I get standard brakes up to standard my intention is to plumb the hydraulic h/b back in, but that will probably need to include a bias valve on the lines to the rear so as to minimise effort lost in taking up slack in the h/b master cylinders - it'd be good to know if this could be done with the existing valves?
 
metro190bhp
Posted 12/7/2015 10:47 PM (#718979 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.
Elite Veteran

Posts: 883
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Location: birmingham
Your standard brake setup runs a diagnal circuit. What i have done is do away with the valves on the bulkhead and run one circuit to your front brakes and the other circuit to the rear. With an adjustable bias valve connected to the rears line
 
skrib
Posted 13/7/2015 8:59 AM (#718983 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 133
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Location: Teesside
metro190bhp.....can you explain how youve done that please?
 
metro190bhp
Posted 14/7/2015 6:50 AM (#718991 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.
Elite Veteran

Posts: 883
500100100100252525
Location: birmingham
Run one line from the port of the master cylinder to the rear with an adjustable bias valve in line and run another line from the other port of the master to the fronts so it is now a front to rear slip system opposed to diagonal
 
skrib
Posted 14/7/2015 7:02 AM (#718992 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 133
10025
Location: Teesside
How did I go about splitting the front line?
 
skrib
Posted 14/7/2015 7:02 AM (#718993 - in reply to #718853)
Subject: RE: Brakes. At wits end.


Regular

Posts: 133
10025
Location: Teesside
How did I go about splitting the front line?
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