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A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity Moderators:
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metrooldie

Posted 30/1/2006 4:35 PM (#105482)
Subject: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 532
500

Location: NL (continent)

Does anyone here have data about the desired output of the mechanical fuel pump (AZX 1817) of my A-metro 1.3?
Something like: "x ml's in y seconds"

tx,
rob

kman1600

Posted 31/1/2006 4:12 AM (#105564 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Veteran

Posts: 393
100

Location: Northern Ireland

metrooldie - 30/1/2006 10:35 PM

Does anyone here have data about the desired output of the mechanical fuel pump (AZX 1817) of my A-metro 1.3?
Something like: "x ml's in y seconds"

tx,
rob

Hi,

Being a mechanical pump its output will be directly related to the speed of the engine, luckly enough the demand also follows the speed of the engine so this is not normally a problem.

Tim

M'coli

Posted 31/1/2006 6:50 AM (#105589 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Regular

Posts: 183
100

Location: Just north of Leeds

I don't know of a specific volume, but it should squirt out of the delivery hose quite rapidly.

Burlen Fuel Systems may be able to help :- www.burlen.co.uk

Peter

Posted 31/1/2006 7:21 PM (#106076 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Member

Posts: 94

Location: Cornwall

No, but exp with mini builds suggests that over 80bhp and it struggles to keep up, but you will have some trouble getting a genuine 80bhp unless you have an SW5 in a nice 1380 and head. Most BHP claims are BS TBH, I have run lots on dynos and they rarely make as much as the owners are lead to believe....over that, fit an electric pump, facet are good.

metrooldie

Posted 1/2/2006 3:04 PM (#106336 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 532
500

Location: NL (continent)

Can I simply take out the mechanical pump and close the opening in the block.
Then mount a (facet) electrical pump in the engine compartment, (does it suck the fuel from the tank) and connect it between the pipe coming from the rear of the car and the carb on the other side?
I don't have to make a return pipe to the tank?
I don't need a pressure valva?
What max. pressure should the Facet give (I have one HIF44 carb)

Peter

Posted 1/2/2006 5:07 PM (#106377 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Member

Posts: 94

Location: Cornwall

Yes, use the late mini a series injection pump blanking plate and gasket to seal off the hole, mount the pump as low as possible close to the tank, the closer the better. Make up a board with a relay on it with a fused ignition switched feed and you must use an inertia switch off a mondeo or late model car or if you have an accident and a pipe splits, the pump will keep churning vast amounts of petrol onto the wreck, not nice! This switch cuts power to the pump and are more or less free from the scrappers.

You don't need the pressure reg and return line unless you are going for a turbo set up, ie, roller vane pump and a turbo. This is the set up I have on my turbo minis, (except I have used an MPi mini tank with built in pump), and dont forget a filter.

What spec are you building? Most builds are fine with a mechanical pump TBH and it's simple.

You want no more than 3.5psi, SU carbs do not like more than that at all.

Edited by Peter 1/2/2006 5:13 PM

metrooldie

Posted 3/2/2006 12:18 PM (#106849 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 532
500

Location: NL (continent)

I'm not building a setup, but only caring for my standard 1989 1.3 A-metro.
The struggle that remains until now is the bad (very reluctant) starting when cold; as I have treated every other point relevant to this, only a bad pump seems to remain (I am thinking on to small output of the pump at starting engine speeds (rotating by the starter motor).

I was contemplating to use an electric pump instead.
Visited the Facet website: 2 types: solid state pumps, the smallest (SS500) giving 2.0-4.0 psi and 25 gallon/hr
The other type is the cylindrical pump, the smallest (STS504), giving 4.0-5.5 psi and 36 gallon/hr.
It is rated for 150 plus hp(!) (a bit of overkill for my 60? 70? hp car... :-)

Looking at "psi" only the smallest solid state model would do..

Looking at the Moss site, the cylindrical type (Facet too) was announced as: "can be mounted in the front and in the back", I read from this this type can be situated very distant from the tank..?!

I would prefer a pump in the engine compartment.

Anyone with more specific advice on which pump to use?
OR to the cause of the bad starting....: maybe I do overlook things..

M'coli

Posted 4/2/2006 6:56 AM (#107000 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Regular

Posts: 183
100

Location: Just north of Leeds

Can you fill the carb manually when the engine's cold? Disconnect the fuel hose into the float chamber and somehow (using a bottle or a small funnel and a lenght of pipe) fill the carb up when cold, reconnect the fuel hose and see if it starts?

Another option would be to try using a cold-start/easy-start spray can and see if it starts/fires with that.

impspeed

Posted 4/2/2006 10:50 AM (#107031 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Mint Metro Killer

100

If you do end up going down the route of electric pump (Not that there should be any reason) buy a Webber electrical fuel pump rather that say the Facet Red Top. The Webber pump does not need to have a filter king regulator fitted as it is a reasonably low pressure pump used on many modern vehicles, also it only costs about £20 new ans is a lot more reliable. Have used this setup on my Imp rally car for the last 12 months and a friend used it on his Imp for well over 4 years and did not have one pump faliure.

DB

metrooldie

Posted 5/2/2006 8:50 AM (#107241 - in reply to #107031)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 532
500

Location: NL (continent)

Are you pointing to a Weber fuel pump (can't find Webber on the net)..
Why are the Facet models, which seem well available over here, inferior??

Do you have the electric pump mounted near the tank or near the engine (Imp has the tank in the front, I know)

impspeed

Posted 5/2/2006 9:57 AM (#107276 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Mint Metro Killer

100

Sorry, Weber...
The pump is mounted next to the tank in the front. The Facet is not neccesarily inferior but in a motorsport use they do become more unreliable and have a tendancy to fail, esspecially on a rally car with lots of vibrations. The weber pump is built to last as is standard oe on most modern fuel injected cars, plus costs a lot let and does away with the need for a filter king regulator.

DB

metrooldie

Posted 6/2/2006 4:37 PM (#107805 - in reply to #107276)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 532
500

Location: NL (continent)

Today I tested the output of the mech. pump in the starting procedure..
It seems okay to me..
So, the bad cold start (long time 'till the engine takes up) isn't caused by 'no/insufficient fuel'

It's unclear now what's the cause for this, as most parts of the ignition are new (plugs, ht-leads, distro cap, distro rotor, timing set, carb set, choke working, fuel in tank)

M'coli

Posted 7/2/2006 2:14 PM (#107974 - in reply to #105482)
Subject: RE: A-metro mech. fuel pump output quantity

Regular

Posts: 183
100

Location: Just north of Leeds

Have you checked whether the float chamber retains fuel whilst standing? Alternatively, pull the choke out if you're switching off overnight, it primes the inlet with fuel-rich air for the next start.

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