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1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
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S16lad
Posted 18/9/2014 10:04 PM (#714554)
Subject: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

Hi my car has suddenly started cutting out when it's warm after about a 4/5mile drive
Then when it cuts out it will not re start until it's even left for about 15/20 mins.

I have cleaned throttle body and made sure there's no blockages in any pipe work.

Whilst trying to start it I took the main ht lead off at the dizzy end and turned the
Engine over to see if I could see a spark jump across but couldn't see one.

Leave it for 15mins or so and it fires up and runs great for a short while.
No jerking or warning of any kind just shuts down and refuses to start it doesn't
Even try like there's no spark.

Could it be the coil breaking down when it gets warm ?

Thanks in advance
 
Dave 20VTRO
Posted 18/9/2014 10:30 PM (#714555 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
Elite Veteran

Posts: 925
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Location: Thinking of vvc'ing my Roadster Brabus :-)
S16lad - 19/9/2014 9:04 PM

Hi my car has suddenly started cutting out when it's warm after about a 4/5mile drive
Then when it cuts out it will not re start until it's even left for about 15/20 mins.

I have cleaned throttle body and made sure there's no blockages in any pipe work.

Whilst trying to start it I took the main ht lead off at the dizzy end and turned the
Engine over to see if I could see a spark jump across but couldn't see one.


Leave it for 15mins or so and it fires up and runs great for a short while.
No jerking or warning of any kind just shuts down and refuses to start it doesn't
Even try like there's no spark.

Could it be the coil breaking down when it gets warm ?

Thanks in advance


Sounds like the coil is getting too warm, have you got the right one fitted?
is it the one on the back of the block or under the headlight?
Back of the block are all the same (except VVC), under the headlight there are @ 4 different types,
ie for points ('A' series), breakerless, electronic ign, Ballast ign, etc, I KNOW that 'K' didn't have points,
but the wrong coil unit can be physically fitted and it will work ok for a bit, its because the dwell time in
the coil doesn't match the car ign system, so they heat up and the internal insulation breaks down causing the coil
to stop working untill it's cooled down.
 
S16lad
Posted 18/9/2014 10:44 PM (#714556 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

Thanks. Hi I've never had the coil changed and it's been great for the last couple of years.
I do have a feeling it's the coil but wasn't sure if they just die and create no spark or if it was
possible for the coil to break down once it's been running a while, then once left to cool down
Would start working again.

So this is possible then ?
 
Dave 20VTRO
Posted 18/9/2014 11:41 PM (#714558 - in reply to #714556)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
Elite Veteran

Posts: 925
50010010010010025
Location: Thinking of vvc'ing my Roadster Brabus :-)
S16lad - 19/9/2014 9:44 PM

Thanks. Hi I've never had the coil changed and it's been great for the last couple of years.
I do have a feeling it's the coil but wasn't sure if they just die and create no spark or if it was
possible for the coil to break down once it's been running a while, then once left to cool down
Would start working again.

So this is possible then ?


Yes, its possible especially if the internal coil windings are breaking down,
try a known good coil from a R100 mpi.
 
S16lad
Posted 18/9/2014 10:48 PM (#714557 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13



Edited by S16lad 18/9/2014 10:49 PM
 
S16lad
Posted 19/9/2014 7:26 AM (#714561 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

I'll pick one up today and give it ago.
Fingers crossed it will sort it ?? thanks I'll let you know how I get on.
 
S16lad
Posted 19/9/2014 7:09 PM (#714567 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

Well fitted a new coil today and took for a test drive.
Currently broke down about 3miles from home ?? 20min
Wait and she should hopefully get me home.

Any other ideas on what the problem could be ?
 
Dave 20VTRO
Posted 19/9/2014 7:51 PM (#714569 - in reply to #714567)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
Elite Veteran

Posts: 925
50010010010010025
Location: Thinking of vvc'ing my Roadster Brabus :-)
S16lad - 20/9/2014 6:09 PM

Well fitted a new coil today and took for a test drive.
Currently broke down about 3miles from home ?? 20min
Wait and she should hopefully get me home.

Any other ideas on what the problem could be ?


When it happens, does the RPM needle drop to zero?, how do you check for sparks?, do you just pull a HT lead off a plug and check when cranking,
or do you pull the King lead off the cap and check that when cranking?.
If there is no sparks at either lead when checking, have you checked for injector pulse, because if they aren't
pulsing when cranking, then you need to try a crank sensor.

 
S16lad
Posted 20/9/2014 12:14 AM (#714574 - in reply to #714569)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

Dave 20VTRO - 19/9/2014 7:51 PM

S16lad - 20/9/2014 6:09 PM

Well fitted a new coil today and took for a test drive.
Currently broke down about 3miles from home ?? 20min
Wait and she should hopefully get me home.

Any other ideas on what the problem could be ?


When it happens, does the RPM needle drop to zero?, how do you check for sparks?, do you just pull a HT lead off a plug and check when cranking,
or do you pull the King lead off the cap and check that when cranking?.
If there is no sparks at either lead when checking, have you checked for injector pulse, because if they aren't
pulsing when cranking, then you need to try a crank sensor.



yes as I dip the clutch to change down it just drops to zero, no splutter or pop/bang just stops and wont restart. I've been pulling the king lead off when cranking and no spark no mater how near or far the lead is from the dizzy.

when I was trying to restart earlier I unplugged the plugged back in each sensor on the car in turn to see if she would fire, but no joy.
even tried disconnecting the battery for 60 seconds and made no difference.

I noticed tonight that the revs where up and down from about 900 to 1500 rpm at a set of traffic lights about 500 yards from when she cut out and refused to start. and adding throttle when cranking makes no difference either.

I'll pick a crank sensor up tomorrow and see how we get on, I'll report back tomorrow !

could the ecu cause these symptoms ?

also if I was to replace the ecu would it need to be coded ? I have no fob or chipped key currently. is it mems 1.9 ?

thanks again Dave appreciate your help
 
petrol_head
Posted 20/9/2014 12:18 AM (#714575 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !


drive it like its hired

5000500050002000500100100100100
You could actually be into blocked cat territory there.
It rarely happens, is it making any strange induction noises if you rev it in neutral?
(you really need the throttle body open to air to hear this)
 
S16lad
Posted 20/9/2014 12:58 AM (#714576 - in reply to #714575)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

petrol_head - 20/9/2014 12:18 AM

You could actually be into blocked cat territory there.
It rarely happens, is it making any strange induction noises if you rev it in neutral?
(you really need the throttle body open to air to hear this)


It has a stainless manifold and exhaust no cat. Was fitted before I bought the car
and has always been fine.

Airbox has been some what modified. Has a piper cross panel filter with the bottom
of the airbox cut out almost completey again has been fine since I bought the car a couple
of years back.

Got to be something and nothing. Just embarrassing when it stops haha
 
petrol_head
Posted 20/9/2014 12:22 PM (#714582 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !


drive it like its hired

5000500050002000500100100100100
Rules that out then, like I say that would be a rare fault anyway.
 
S16lad
Posted 20/9/2014 10:24 PM (#714585 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
New user

Posts: 13

ok a little update. when it broke down yesterday it would not restart, I tried it again this morning and still wouldn't start so changed the coil back to the original but still no spark.
I popped to the local factors and picked up a crank sensor and fitted it.. started first time and seems to be running great. been for a longish drive including motorway and didn't skip a beat.

thanks for all your help lads.
 
MetroGaz
Posted 21/9/2014 9:20 PM (#714596 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
Veteran

Posts: 335
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Location: York, tis Cold Up North!
Hi

Do keep us posted and confirm if the crank sensor has solved in permanently as it is a good topic to save just in case it happens to any of us.

MG
 
Dave 20VTRO
Posted 23/9/2014 9:55 PM (#714628 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
Elite Veteran

Posts: 925
50010010010010025
Location: Thinking of vvc'ing my Roadster Brabus :-)
A failed crank sensor would also stop the injectors pulsing as well as no spark,
Its a problem trying to diagnose this without a dedicated male plug and led that would
plug into a injector loom as this would quickly rule out just ign and HT problems, as
no spark and no injector pulse would point straight to the crank sensor.
 
Tillythekid
Posted 6/7/2015 12:09 AM (#718893 - in reply to #714554)
Subject: RE: 1.4 16v mpi cutting out when warmed up !
Member

Posts: 30
25
Location: Kingsbridge, Devon
This sounds exactly like what mine has just started doing. Has it been running fine since changing the crankshaft sensor?
Thanks
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