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Gearbox or clutch..! Moderators:
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Bigtel1977

Posted 28/6/2015 3:43 PM (#718820)
Subject: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Hi all, just bought a metro GTi with a suspected clutch fault. My question is how do I know if it's the clutch or gearbox as I hear they have a weak selector fork.

I know the obvious answer is to remove them but just wondered if there was a way of knowing without this. Also how easy is it to remove the gearbox, can it be done on my drove with a jack and axle stands..?...or is it a garage job...I'm turning the car into a track car so it doesn't matter to much what I take out the engine bay.

Regards, Terry

Bigtel1977

Posted 11/7/2015 8:57 PM (#718968 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Cheers, I'm gonna strip it down and have a look inside it anyway as I'll need a spare. Where's the best to get an R65 gearbox from please.

There's none on eBay I can see relly.

Marv_666

Posted 28/6/2015 4:03 PM (#718821 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

'88 MG METRO 1300

Posts: 1117
1000

Location: Dudley, Midlands

Can you drive it to identify the symptoms??
Or do you have an accurate description of what is was / wasn't doing?

It is a job you can do at home if you have a half decent set of tools.
I wouldn't take it to a garage with a drive and no time pressure to get it sorted asap.

Bigtel1977

Posted 28/6/2015 4:12 PM (#718822 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Sorry I should have been clearer, put it in gear, lift the clutch and nothing happens..the cable is not snapped so I know it's not that.

I have more tools than halfords so that's not an issue, just need someone to point me in the right direction first, I'm an engineer by trade so am happy to tinker.

Dave 20VTRO

Posted 29/6/2015 5:33 PM (#718831 - in reply to #718822)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Elite Veteran

Posts: 925
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Location: Thinking of vvc'ing my Roadster Brabus :-)

Bigtel1977 - 29/6/2015 3:12 PM

Sorry I should have been clearer, put it in gear, lift the clutch and nothing happens..the cable is not snapped so I know it's not that.

I have more tools than halfords so that's not an issue, just need someone to point me in the right direction first, I'm an engineer by trade so am happy to tinker.

It could be a crownwheel come loose, try all the gears and see if any driveshaft is turning (with the car stationary), if no shaft
is turning, I would go for a loose crownwheel, (its a diff change). If a driveshaft is tuning, then the outer cv has a problem.

Marv_666

Posted 28/6/2015 4:18 PM (#718823 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

'88 MG METRO 1300

Posts: 1117
1000

Location: Dudley, Midlands

Odd...
Can you get someone to operate the pedal while you check the clutch arm is moving as it should?
Same thing happen in all gears?
Is the gear linkage attached and in one piece?

Would expect something to happen, if only a noise you don't want to hear!?!

Bigtel1977

Posted 28/6/2015 4:35 PM (#718824 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

I'll check again tomorrow and see if the fork moves, and listen for any noises.

Is it a pig to drop the box, does it come out underneath or out the top.

ding

Posted 28/6/2015 8:57 PM (#718825 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

The box will only come out the top, but doesn't have to. I've done clutches on metro's by sliding the box over but it is tight.

Bigtel1977

Posted 28/6/2015 10:04 PM (#718826 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Cheers for the help guys, does the engine have to come out then.

DotMatrix

Posted 28/6/2015 11:50 PM (#718827 - in reply to #718826)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Expert

Posts: 4458
2000

Location: Jelling, Denmark

Bigtel1977 - 28/6/2015 11:04 PM

Cheers for the help guys, does the engine have to come out then.

no. you can change the clutch by sliding the gearbox out into the inner wing and supporting the engine with a jack as ding talks about. but its not that easy to center the clutch plate when changing clutch this way.

Marv_666

Posted 29/6/2015 1:03 AM (#718828 - in reply to #718827)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

'88 MG METRO 1300

Posts: 1117
1000

Location: Dudley, Midlands

DotMatrix - 28/6/2015 11:50 PM

but its not that easy to center the clutch plate when changing clutch this way.

Someone should take an input shaft out of a knackered box then...
scan it, tweak it, and 3-D print a clutch alignment tool!?!

DotMatrix

Posted 29/6/2015 7:40 AM (#718830 - in reply to #718828)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Expert

Posts: 4458
2000

Location: Jelling, Denmark

Marv_666 - 29/6/2015 2:03 AM

DotMatrix - 28/6/2015 11:50 PM

but its not that easy to center the clutch plate when changing clutch this way.

Someone should take an input shaft out of a knackered box then...
scan it, tweak it, and 3-D print a clutch alignment tool!?!

sure. this would be a useful tool. I use a bit of tube that has the right diameter. I have drawn a ring around it with a marker to show how far in it has to go, but still not easy.

pickford

Posted 29/6/2015 6:03 PM (#718832 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Extreme Veteran

Posts: 586
500

Location: brighouse just shy huddersfield

whack a new box in just to be sure there only cheap for an r65 nowadays

Bigtel1977

Posted 29/6/2015 6:36 PM (#718834 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

I've undone the box drain plug to dump all the oil out before unbolting the box mounts, the plug had a load of metal fillings on it..!.

I've disconnected the clutch cable, what's next please.

petrol_head

Posted 29/6/2015 10:10 PM (#718838 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

drive it like its hired

5000

clutch failure can often be like that.
Box has to come out anyway...

Bigtel1977

Posted 29/6/2015 10:55 PM (#718839 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

I've decided not to mess about. I'm gonna take the whole engine and box out from the top and split on the floor. Saves all the hassle under the car, that's what the Haynes manual says as well.

Cheers for the input guys, will let you know what it was..I'm going for the box.

Bigtel1977

Posted 5/7/2015 10:11 PM (#718888 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Sit rep,

I managed to get the engine and box out tonight, it's a bit of a pain on your own. I'm gonna split them tomorrow and see what's gone on.

Quick question, where's the best place to get a clutch and box from please..?

petrol_head

Posted 5/7/2015 11:09 PM (#718889 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

drive it like its hired

5000

motorfactors, make sure you get a 16v clutch.

111Sli

Posted 5/7/2015 11:46 PM (#718892 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Transport Guru
MP Moderator

Posts: 4947
2000

Location: Bromley, Kent

The only oil to put back into an R65 I found after extensive research was Castrol EPX 75/80 as they are very fussy to their oil. Only place I could find the 2L required was ebay.

DotMatrix

Posted 11/7/2015 1:36 AM (#718961 - in reply to #718892)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Expert

Posts: 4458
2000

Location: Jelling, Denmark

111Sli - 6/7/2015 12:46 AM

The only oil to put back into an R65 I found after extensive research was Castrol EPX 75/80 as they are very fussy to their oil. Only place I could find the 2L required was ebay.

I previously checked the rave cd and it names 4 specific oils to use when changing oil in the R65 gearbox. One of these are Total BV 75w80 which is the one I can most easily find. It can be purchased at Citroen/Peugeot garages as its the oil they use for gearbox oil changes on the Saxo/106 and other cars using that type of gearbox. It cost me £8 a litre.

111Sli

Posted 11/7/2015 2:15 PM (#718962 - in reply to #718961)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Transport Guru
MP Moderator

Posts: 4947
2000

Location: Bromley, Kent

DotMatrix - 11/7/2015 1:36 AM

I found this after looking at the Rover Recommended service lubricants sheet

Bigtel1977

Posted 10/7/2015 10:11 PM (#718957 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Got around to splitting them tonight, the clutch plate measures 7.3mm thick, Haynes manual says that should be ok, less than 6.3mm is bad. It des have a thick black scorch mark on the pate though and two springs are loose.

Is there a way to test the box while it's out, what if I pop the drive shafts back in and try turning the main gearbox shaft to see if the drive shafts turn.

Bigtel1977

Posted 11/7/2015 4:52 PM (#718963 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Member

Posts: 75

Thanks for the oil into, but it doesn't really answer my question ??

MetroGaz

Posted 11/7/2015 8:41 PM (#718967 - in reply to #718820)
Subject: RE: Gearbox or clutch..!

Veteran

Posts: 335
100

Location: York, tis Cold Up North!

Hi

As you have the engine and box out and in any event you would put on a new clutch assembly in etc.

Then as you have said already, metal bits came out with the oil, so clearly something could be amiss inside the gearbox, but as you have it out you can strip it down and inspect for any damage or simply leave that to another day when you have more time and for now just get another R65u box and fit that, as they are plentiful.

So it's up to you - do you wnat to inspect gearbox and learn if anything is amiss or simply bolt on another R65u box?

MG

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