GTM Rossa K3 Journal
 
gtm-owner
Posted 31/8/2006 5:38 AM (#176180)
Subject: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Ok been busy since I bought the car, now I need to start doing some work to it.

So far all I've done is weigh the car! It weighed 770kgs (hard top fitted) (if I'm going to start preparing the car I want to know where I start from?) and removed 13kgs of moist sound proofing from under the carpet, then removed the rear luggage box as it was catching water and weighed 7kgs on its own, obviously now weight is estimated at 750kgs and car feels much dryer for not carrying a sponge under the carpet!

Jobs to do soon:

1.Change gearbox for the 4 speed I have spare.

2.Recon 5 speed I removed.

3.Individualise suspension (car is mid engined and front feels very hard)

4.Refit 5 speed with new clutch and lightened and balanced flywheel.

5.Duct air intakes from side to engine bay and induction (bay holds lots of heat on these!)

6.Improve reversing lights! (is there a usual mod for Tro's?)

7.Replace perished heater hoses.

Possible Jobs for the future:

1.Fit VVC!

2.Fit 15" MGF 5 spokes (if anyone has a set?)

3.MGTF discs and callipers (again anyone have a set?)

4.Alloy core radiator.

5.Lighter fibre glass or carbon shelled seats (Tro GTi seats fitted weigh 15kgs each, buckets should be under 4kgs!)

6.Replace fuel tank to stop surging and simplify plumbing.

Edited by gtm-owner 18/9/2006 6:26 PM
 
MarkElvin
Posted 31/8/2006 7:11 AM (#176207 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
I love those cars so much.
 
ben_k3
Posted 31/8/2006 11:31 AM (#176269 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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not bad list there, mines like this
indiviualise suspension
mgf rear disks and caliper (the handbrake is utter poo at the moment)
mgf wheels
along with lots of other things but there my main ones
cars looking good by the way
 
gtm-owner
Posted 2/9/2006 5:06 PM (#177223 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Had a couple of hours to kill between other jobs so went on and cut out behind rear number plate to let some of that heat out the engine bay, number plate refitted for the moment but I'll make some brackets to mount plate an angle as I have already on the front to let air in at rad.

Ben my car already had Rover 800 rear callipers with non vented discs skimmed down to suite on the rear so hand brake is ok but I'm sure the MGF conversion is better? does yours still have the dubious GTM hand brake?

Possibly lined up a VVC! so we may see how complicated a conversion that is? .......

Edited by gtm-owner 2/9/2006 5:11 PM




(Vent rear.jpg)



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MarkElvin
Posted 2/9/2006 5:45 PM (#177243 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
Why not put 10mm spacers between thr number plate & bootlid, over the bolts?

Just a stack of washers would suffice in the short term.
 
gtm-owner
Posted 2/9/2006 6:05 PM (#177251 - in reply to #177243)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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That's how it is at the moment! The brackets I've made for the front are very simply bent aluminium and angling the plate will mean the number plate light still works properly!

Hows your cars diet coming along? do you have an idea of the gross weight yet?
 
ben_k3
Posted 2/9/2006 8:01 PM (#177296 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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its not the gtm handbrake its from a bloody 2CV needs adjusting every week and still doesnt work on any hills, geting some mgf rear calipers soon though (gota wait bloody apprentice wages) im planning on makeing ducts from the front vents to go to the radiator and possibly a loughbrorough 3 core radiator. and i need to find a hydragas pump aswell.
the only weight saveing ive done so far is going to the loo before i get in the car and changed the vents on the front clamshel from being blanked off with mdf its now carbon fibre a whole 100grams lighter per vent lol
and polishing the scartches out does that count?

Edited by ben_k3 2/9/2006 8:14 PM
 
gtm-owner
Posted 5/9/2006 9:16 AM (#178194 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Ok just spoken to Dudley at Talon and he's sort of cleared things up, more a case of given me reality which means more thought needed!

I said I liked MGF 5 spoke he pointed out they have greater offset and Metro wheels on the GTM protrude the arches! So I think I'll pinch my uncles MGF alloys and try to see what it looks like.

He seemed more inclined to VVC than any other possible though said normal 1600 and 1800 are easier for DIY any change require similar scratching of head for ECU and wiring!

I asked why people with Metro's went to MGF displacers at the front and he said to stiffen up mainly, well I'm inclined to think mine is stiff enough so I'll go with some Mini displacers I have that are individualised on the rear and individualise the Metro rears that are fitted to my front! (does that make sense?)

As for fitting VVC he's currently doing an MGF VVC total rear subframe swap on a GTM so suggested I wait to see what that turns out like. That would mean more expense in buying a complete rear end from a MGF donor but would mean I get to use cable gear change, PG1 box and MGF disc callipers and rear sus! But the cost might just too much for me, I'd probably be better off buying a GTM VVC already done!
 
gtm-owner
Posted 7/9/2006 5:43 AM (#178727 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Well I spent all day yesterday changing gearboxes! still not finished, have the box in the car but it was getting dark and I was pi$$ed of so was having difficulties getting the input shaft in, so starting a fresh in a minute.

Basically I was hoping the gearbox would come up through the engine bay but there isn't the clearance between the bulkhead and back of subframe, so I wound up having to take the clutch and flywheel off to make clearance for the box to go down through! All this was hindered by the previous owner and builder of the car being a gorilla with the spanners and EVRYTHING was over tightened so I rounded off the head of one bolt so had to grind the head off and sheared another!

I had my suspicions that the clutch was on the way out as the biting point was low but the friction and pressure plate look ok, friction plate looks a little glazed and I found the clutch cable outer has had a spacer added so I'm wondering if the clutch cable isn't giving enough travel? Anyway the 1100 flywheel I had with the gearbox looked the same apart from clutch diameter so 1100 clutch (which I know was good) and flywheel now fitted.

Things should go a bit better this afternoon, I'm in a better mood and all the bolts that were going to break already have so things can only get better .......?
 
MarkElvin
Posted 7/9/2006 5:46 AM (#178728 - in reply to #178727)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
gtm-owner - 7/9/2006 5:43 AM

Well I spent all day yesterday changing gearboxes! still not finished, have the box in the car but it was getting dark and I was pi$$ed of so was having difficulties getting the input shaft in, so starting a fresh in a minute.

Basically I was hoping the gearbox would come up through the engine bay but there isn't the clearance between the bulkhead and back of subframe, so I wound up having to take the clutch and flywheel off to make clearance for the box to go down through! All this was hindered by the previous owner and builder of the car being a gorilla with the spanners and EVRYTHING was over tightened so I rounded off the head of one bolt so had to grind the head off and sheared another!

I had my suspicions that the clutch was on the way out as the biting point was low but the friction and pressure plate look ok, friction plate looks a little glazed and I found the clutch cable outer has had a spacer added so I'm wondering if the clutch cable isn't giving enough travel? Anyway the 1100 flywheel I had with the gearbox looked the same apart from clutch diameter so 1100 clutch (which I know was good) and flywheel now fitted.

Things should go a bit better this afternoon, I'm in a better mood and all the bolts that were going to break already have so things can only get better .......?
.....YOU HOPE
 
gtm-owner
Posted 7/9/2006 6:20 PM (#178993 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Things went better....

All back together smaller 1100 clutch and flywheel fitted to 1400 Mpi no problem works fine, only still has crap feel clutch low on the pedal so assume cable length or pedal ratio is wrong?

Now have new fault, drove to town to test everything out and drove it hard in 1st and 2nd to see how gearbox is and how acceleration is with these ratio's short lived experience as by the time I changed up to third throttle had stuck and I got in to third with engine doing 6500rpm! panic set in and by the time I'd thought to key the engine off and stopped, the car was full of clutch smoke! for a while I thought we'd caught fire! lol clutch survived and I found the nipple on the throttle body segment moves and jams the throttle open! weird it never did this before? still it happened again on my 6 mile round trip so clearly somethings not right with it!

Working on the car is not as easy as you may think! being mid-engined its easy to look at it and think simple remove rear body work (this is almost a 2 minute job, only hampered by having to disconnect ALL rear lights) then you can walk around the engine, well this is sort of true.

Problem with gearbox out is in this car the bulkhead is in front of the engine and to achieve a good compact design it is tight to the bulkhead so on the Metro/100 you can remove the member from the subframe to the right of the gearbox and move box in to that space before lifting out, on the GTM you find that the gap between bulkhead and rear of subframe isn't as big as the bell housing! in the end I had to remove clutch and flywheel which only just makes enough space with the engine at exactly the right height to get box down through! If I didn't have my Dads pit to work in I'd have been buggered! Engine and box out may have been easier as that may be achievable up through? but not entirely convinced.

Separating subframe from car may have been easier but I'm not sure, to separate you need to disconnect all wiring from ECU and earth's ect from Subframe, and drain / separate cooling! once the cooling circuit is opened on a mid engined car there will be air locks so its all more work than you'd expect from a Metro/100 once separated you still got to take apart suspension ect to get box out! my suspension is still linked so something else to separate at the mo!

Definitely want to individualise sus now! The link pipes in the engine bay of a GTM are a real pain in the arse when you want to do something! Current thinking is to get two more rear units from a scrap Tro with their valves and tee piece and cut and weld the tee. Once this done I can remove my entire Hydro system and replace with these and two individual Mini units I have. Always planing these tasks so the cars off the road as little as possible, if anyone reading this is building or renovating a GTM individualise the sus from day one, its got to be simpler and better all round.

Edited by gtm-owner 7/9/2006 6:21 PM
 
gtm-owner
Posted 9/9/2006 12:07 PM (#179405 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Ok changed the piece of rubber that had been added to the clutch cable outer as a packing piece for a piece of plastic so it no longer compresses, Now have a better feeling biting point but still feel the pedal ratio maybe wrong and I could put up with a heavier pedal?

Checked the tracking before I did the clutch to find the rear was towing in 1/4 inch! The rear really had been on rails and never stepped out on round abouts unless it was wet, so last night adjusted the rear to run parallel and now I can have controllable over steer on request!

Fixed my sticking throttle so now I can drive with a heavier foot again

My paint works started going milky! (Red gel coat glass fibre) I knew it would, just tried some Turtle wax I'd bought for the plastics on my motorbike, this has given it a shine but not lifted the colour at all! Any recommendations for lifting and enrichening red plastic?
 
Bissee_99
Posted 10/9/2006 9:22 AM (#179612 - in reply to #179405)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


Old Skool TART!!

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gtm-owner - 9/9/2006 6:07 PM

My paint works started going milky! (Red gel coat glass fibre) I knew it would, just tried some Turtle wax I'd bought for the plastics on my motorbike, this has given it a shine but not lifted the colour at all! Any recommendations for lifting and enrichening red plastic?


Pop down to halfords and get yourself :

- Meguiars Clay Bar
- Meguairs Paint Cleaner (step 1)
- Meguiars Polish (step 2)
- Meguiars Carnuba Wax (step3)

Wash your car, then clay your whole car, then wash it again. Follwed by the meguiars 3 step procedure and i promise your car will be gleaming again
 
ben_k3
Posted 9/9/2006 12:41 PM (#179423 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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the saying if it aint broken dont fix it come to mind lol.
if you use a mop with some polish should bring it up well.
 
petrol_head
Posted 10/9/2006 9:23 AM (#179613 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


drive it like its hired

5000500050002000500100100100100
you have got to get rid of those rear lights, they look terrible
other than that its an awesome car
 
gtm-owner
Posted 14/9/2006 10:45 AM (#181112 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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No intention of changing rear lights just yet!

Just got back from scrappy with four rear valves from Tro/100 rear displacers to start individualising, and two 56mm throttle bodies as mine has started sticking intermittently! Its only sticking around 2000 and a blip brings tick over back to just over 1000, so I'll clean up the one I got from a Rover 820 and swap as they look identical? and the other is from an old 'O' series Montego EFi? it has no stepper motor and the breathers are in a different place but it is a 56mm bore! so thought I'd bring it on to play with?
 
ben_k3
Posted 14/9/2006 11:06 AM (#181119 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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i think the rear lights are good well i think they look better when there on a yellow gtm.
get some rover 100 lights to replace your metro ones thats what ive done looks loads better.
 
gtm-owner
Posted 14/9/2006 11:40 AM (#181130 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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You started a journal Ben? would be nice to see your car!
 
ben_k3
Posted 15/9/2006 10:42 AM (#181403 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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nah i havent realy got round to it, but ive got a better idea of just hikacking yours!!
heres a sneaky peak



(Photo-0063.jpg)



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gtm-owner
Posted 15/9/2006 11:39 AM (#181418 - in reply to #181403)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Cool! The car of the Devil!
 
ben_k3
Posted 15/9/2006 11:53 AM (#181426 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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aye the car is very evil! going for a complete brake overhaul soon my wallets not guna like it, oh well at least i mite b able to try and blag some of it for my 18th bday
 
gtm-owner
Posted 18/9/2006 2:34 PM (#182352 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Oh if only I could be 18 again ........

Anyway, Individualised!

Cut the plastic pipe off the tee piece then welded hole closed on all four valves from the scrappy.

Jacked car up and stood on axle stands connected my pump and let pressure off (The pump catches all the fluid! )

Disconnected hose to front and rear displacers.

Screw in newly adapted valves.

Pump back up to around 300psi and let down off of axle stands.

Once cars back on floor pump up to full pressure (I'm trying 350psi front and 400psi rear?)



(Image01.jpg)



(Image02.jpg)



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ben_k3
Posted 18/9/2006 3:06 PM (#182373 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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not fair! i want a pump! has it made a significant difference?
 
gtm-owner
Posted 18/9/2006 3:09 PM (#182377 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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eeeer! not realy tested it yet! finished up just as it was getting dark and my tummy was rumbling!
 
ben_k3
Posted 18/9/2006 5:24 PM (#182515 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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oh right so you got lazy lol, how long did it take?
 
gtm-owner
Posted 18/9/2006 6:25 PM (#182546 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Once the valves were modified the actual de-pressurising, swapping valves and re-pressurising was under an hour and I was in no rush! Mind you I've still got to remove the old pipes which would probably be more effort as I have to remove the trim from inside the rear bulkhead to pull the pipes from the engine bay and then pull them clear and through the front bulkhead.
This will be a good job done as it removes clutter from the engine bay and I've found heater hoses are perished so that's another job for the list at the top of the page!
 
ben_k3
Posted 19/9/2006 12:20 PM (#182755 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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yes ive had a look at how to take the connecting pipes out and it looks a bugger!
 
gtm-owner
Posted 15/1/2007 4:31 PM (#230383 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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I'm back!.......

Not been far, just been distracted by other things so the cars been parked since October with no battery on it!

Looking in to swapping the gearbox back to a 5 speed soon with lightened flywheel, car has been quick on its 4 speed but the little 1100 clutch I fitted can still be slipping when you hit 70! This was only ever a temporary measure!

Been on the look out for light weight seats, the Metro GTi ones are 15kgs each! its a two seater so seats dont need to fold or adjust have seen some at 6kgs each!
 
MarkElvin
Posted 30/1/2007 1:55 AM (#237193 - in reply to #230383)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
gtm-owner - 15/1/2007 4:31 PM

I'm back!.......

Not been far, just been distracted by other things so the cars been parked since October with no battery on it!

Looking in to swapping the gearbox back to a 5 speed soon with lightened flywheel, car has been quick on its 4 speed but the little 1100 clutch I fitted can still be slipping when you hit 70! This was only ever a temporary measure!

Been on the look out for light weight seats, the Metro GTi ones are 15kgs each! its a two seater so seats dont need to fold or adjust have seen some at 6kgs each!


I can recommend the SParco Sprint, they are cheap (£100 ish) & light (7kg ish), also FIA approved so you know you are safe.
 
gtm-owner
Posted 29/1/2007 6:31 PM (#237170 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Been to Mark's and 'helped' him swap gearboxes and came away with a GTi box, so now have a good 5 speed to swap back to once I've modified the flywheel and purchased a fresh clutch (if anyone spots a clutch on eBay let me know?)

Edited by gtm-owner 29/1/2007 6:31 PM
 
Gareth Cole
Posted 2/2/2007 7:07 PM (#239108 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
Talon Sports Cars

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Can't be arsed to write a journal as it would sort of duplicate our website, but if you want to follow the (slow) progress or our lightweight K3 project, you can here ... http://www.talonsportscars.com/project-k3.asp

Gareth
 
Jam-88
Posted 5/2/2007 5:22 PM (#240376 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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ho much lighter do you reakon tht light weight k3 will be ?
 
gtm-owner
Posted 8/3/2007 1:32 PM (#252680 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Yes been watching the light weight K3 build, Looking good.

Dapped a battery on the car this week, not really expecting it to start as its been stood since October but it surprised me and started no problem! (Good girl!) moved her on to the drive and washed her, opened all the doors pannels ect and removed a winter worth of dead leaves from every orifice! Paintwork came up quite well considering.

Problem is just when I thought right I'll give her a run to clean up the disc ect I found that if you give her any throtle she cuts out! I've found if I give her throtle from the engine bay you can smell petrol! Any ideas? She ticks over and starts fine!

I figure next I do all the things she's probably due in a service ie change coil, HT leads, Plugs, clean air filter and check all connections? Was planning on doing the cambelt when I swap the gearboxes.
 
FreddieS
Posted 9/3/2007 6:46 PM (#253191 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


Elf eating dog breeder

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gah, seeing all the K3 goodness i really want one

K3's have appealed to me since i first saw em, really sad theyve stopped making them now

but yours is looking good, crack on working on it and it will be a really mint motor!
 
gtm-owner
Posted 11/3/2007 11:12 AM (#253543 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Ok it starts fine and if you rev it within a minute of staring it revs freely! leave it to idle for a while and it'll only rev to 2k and then cut out and return to idle!

I've checked all electrical connections I can and dizzy cap and leads all look fine, so started to think its fuel? I've noticed if I turn the engine off and then restart it again revs freely! back to square one! So I'm thinking that when the pump primes at start up its reaching proper pressure, then for some reason after running a while pressure drops? I have noticed I get a smell of petrol in the engine bay?

Thinking or bypassing the charcoal canister in case its got a blockage? would quite like to do away with it all together just to tidy up the plumbing a bit?

Any thoughts?
 
gtm-owner
Posted 14/3/2007 4:15 AM (#255065 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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Collected new seats from Mark last night and some other spares, not going to fit the seats until after the MoT.

Still not got the car running any sense at the moment, bypassed the fuel filter and charcoal canister and thats made no difference! back to electrical connections and sensors!

Is there any form of airflow meter on MPI's or does it just rely on the Lambda?

Not dedicating all my time to this at the mo, finished and MoT'd a Honda C90 last week, working on a Yamaha Townmate and Honda rotorvator at the moment and a Honda NT650V to strip re paint frame and service still to do......
 
ben_k3
Posted 16/3/2007 3:27 PM (#256012 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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Have you tryed putting some fresh petrol in it? might be worth a go if you havent used it since october.
 
gtm-owner
Posted 18/3/2007 5:00 AM (#256372 - in reply to #256012)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal


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No not put any fresh in it yet, its pretty low on fuel now anyway. Thing is it was a bit spluttery at times towards October anyway so think its a problem that was developing back then!
 
ben_k3
Posted 25/3/2007 2:08 PM (#259010 - in reply to #176180)
Subject: RE: GTM Rossa K3 Journal
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Have you checked all the vaccum pipes? or possibly a leak in the inlet manifold gasket.